Save 3D data and "-1" suffix

[ckrug]

Does anyone know how to avoid the -1 suffix added to 3D data files? This issue occurs when I load a 3D data file and then save the file as a pkg file. Then when I attempt to save the file back to its original location as a 3D data file, without making any changes to the 3D model, OSDM adds a -1 suffix. I can choose to rename the file without the -1 but then other assemblies that reference that file become broken. When I attempt to load these files I get "File missing" errors. All of my files are located in a single directory.

The only work around that seems to be successful is to save the file as 3D data to another directory and then save it back to its original location. This can become painful with large assemblies. And I have to choose save 3D data rather than save 3D modified. Since I just saved to a different directory save 3D modified will save nothing. Save 3D data also saves all of the files that haven't changed, which takes a long time.

I do not plan on using Model Manager. I am using OSDM 15.50B. Thanks in advance for any help.

[BMaverick]

This may be a slightly old thread, but nobody did answer it.

I've found this -1 option to be very annoying as well.

Anyone have feedback on a better work around to avoid getting a -1?

[Mike Swartz]

Because you are saving files with the same name into a folder that you did not load these parts from, there is no provision to overwrite the files. As far as CoCreate Modeling knows, you may be destroying data, and it will not do that.

I know you said you do not plan on using Model Manager, but it can deal with this sort of issue with no problems.

Do you reuse parts from one assembly to another? How do you deal with that when you save 3D data to your file system? (or worse, if you save as a package or bundle?)
What do you do when you need to make a change to one of your parts that is used in many different assemblies?

[ckrug]

I give up! I have found no good way to deal with -1 files. I spend way too much time fixing assemblies and with multiple users, I think it's time to try Model Manager.

Unfortunately I will have to fix ALL of the broken assemblies before I can load them into MM. No Fun.

[waynef]

I would suggest you do not combine the two saving methods, package file and 3D data, on your file system. You should just use one or the other when working on your file system. The recommended use model for the package file is to "zip" up your 3D data files and send them to somebody else for manufacturing or design review purposes. If they make changes to the package file and send it back to you, then it should just be used as a reference to change your model (use "Load as Part/Assy Version"), you change your model to match, and then save Modified 3D data again to your file system. This is the most robust way to keep your 3D data from getting the -1 tagged onto your filenames.

This is not to say you cannot use the package file as a backup method while in your current session as with the AutoSave feature in the System Settings. Just don't leave the session and expect that you can load the backup package file and to save as 3D data without the naming problems. You should only restore that backup if absolutely necessary and then you might have to deal with the 3D data file naming issue, but, hopefully, only in extraordinary circumstances.

If you are trying to develop multiple design proposals using package files as a way to segregate the proposals from your master 3D data, I would definitely recommend using Model Manager. Model Manager provides revision control at all levels of your assembly with the ability to switch between revisions and swap out revisions of an assembly or individual model very easily within your top-level assembly.

In addition, Model Manager supports a combined use model of saving to Model Manager and saving to package files because it attaches a separate database modified-flag attribute to the model after it has been stored to Model Manager that keeps track of whether it has been modified when it is outside of the database environment even if you save it as package file or a 3D data file to your file system and then reloaded it from your file system. For example, with Model Manager, you can take an assembly out of Model Manager, save it as a package file, send it to somebody else, they can modify it, then send it back to you and you can save the models back into Model Manager as a new revision or by overwriting. This is because Model Manager uses the internal sysID of the model and the database modified flag attached to the model to track what needs to happen to it when you go to save to Model Manager.

[BMaverick]

Originally Posted by waynef

I would suggest you do not combine the two saving methods, package file and 3D data, on your file system. You should just use one or the other when working on your file system.

Our comapny mixed and matched using PKG and the 3D data method. It's a real mess on top of the other data management problems at our site. Your words speak clearly of using one or the other. To bad the previous people using CoCreate didn't see it that way.

It's a slow process on our end undoing the mess. But at least it's getting done.

Originally Posted by ckrug

I give up! I have found no good way to deal with -1 files. I spend way too much time fixing assemblies and with multiple users, I think it's time to try Model Manager.

Unfortunately I will have to fix ALL of the broken assemblies before I can load them into MM. No Fun.

ckrug, maybe you need to issue a document procedure that explains how to file parts and assemblies using CoCreate within your company. Make the document controled with the backing of QS9001/ISO9001 so that people must adhere to the procedure. If they don't adhere, it's a minor ding for their department and their employee review. Hold them acountable for their actions. If they adhere, then it's smooth sailing for everyone.

Yes, mixing the data types can be a mess in the file system, but people are people that can even mess up a PLM like Model Manager too.

[ckrug]

Originally Posted by waynef

I would suggest you do not combine the two saving methods, package file and 3D data, on your file system. You should just use one or the other when working on your file system. The recommended use model for the package file is to "zip" up your 3D data files and send them to somebody else for manufacturing or design review purposes. If they make changes to the package file and send it back to you, then it should just be used as a reference to change your model (use "Load as Part/Assy Version"), you change your model to match, and then save Modified 3D data again to your file system. This is the most robust way to keep your 3D data from getting the -1 tagged onto your filenames.

This is not to say you cannot use the package file as a backup method while in your current session as with the AutoSave feature in the System Settings. Just don't leave the session and expect that you can load the backup package file and to save as 3D data without the naming problems. You should only restore that backup if absolutely necessary and then you might have to deal with the 3D data file naming issue, but, hopefully, only in extraordinary circumstances.

If you are trying to develop multiple design proposals using package files as a way to segregate the proposals from your master 3D data, I would definitely recommend using Model Manager. Model Manager provides revision control at all levels of your assembly with the ability to switch between revisions and swap out revisions of an assembly or individual model very easily within your top-level assembly.

In addition, Model Manager supports a combined use model of saving to Model Manager and saving to package files because it attaches a separate database modified-flag attribute to the model after it has been stored to Model Manager that keeps track of whether it has been modified when it is outside of the database environment even if you save it as package file or a 3D data file to your file system and then reloaded it from your file system. For example, with Model Manager, you can take an assembly out of Model Manager, save it as a package file, send it to somebody else, they can modify it, then send it back to you and you can save the models back into Model Manager as a new revision or by overwriting. This is because Model Manager uses the internal sysID of the model and the database modified flag attached to the model to track what needs to happen to it when you go to save to Model Manager.

Thank you for your response. In our use model we have many parts that are already in our database (actually just a directory of 3D bodies). When we start a new project we often use some parts from the database, download models from vendors, and create our own models. During this process there are many parts that will never get used hence do not yet have part numbers assigned to them (model names) mixed with parts that are from the database. When I go home for the night I would like to be able to save my work. How do I do this when I don't have model names yet? How do I save out Work In Progress when it is a mixed bag of data?

I tried saving 3D data to a separate WIP directory, however this can become problematic as well.

I think in the end, Model Manager is the way to go and I am currently in the process of migrating my data to an existing model manager instance. Any recommendations for tools that help with this migration? Some examples would be:
- A program that give me a where used function within my existing database. (Need to find "where used" on files that I would like to remove from the database)
- A program that will automate the process of loading a directory of 3D data (.sda, .sdac, .sdp, .sdpc, .sdcc, etc) into Model Manager.

Does anyone have experience loading a 6000 part / 1000 assembly directory of 3D data into Model Manager? Any advise? I have great support here at my company to help with the migration of data, however, I'd like to have input from anyone who has already gone through the process.

Many Thanks,
Calvin

[BMaverick]

Calvin,

Our company uses SK numbers for parts without production readiness or development work or to just toss something together for someone.

SK stands for "sketch." Years ago people would sketch ideas down on a napkin, post-it or what ever. In the CAD system saving a SK named file works just the same. It's a place holder.

SK-000001 was our first number.

You can be really fancy and say, SK-100000 series are the master product family highest level assembly, SK-200000 series are sub-assemblies, SK-300000 series are components, SK-400000 series are specification drawings (circuit diagrams, flow diagrams, check lists, test specs, etc.), SK-500000 series are Material Raw goods.

Be creative to how you would like things to work in the way your company needs are.

I've loaded 500Mb assembly files that have about 2,000+ sub-CAD files. However, not in Cocreate. There is a threshold in Cocreate loading, but there is a way to go above it.

[Andy Poulsen]

Originally Posted by ckrug

Thank you for your response. In our use model we have many parts that are already in our database (actually just a directory of 3D bodies). When we start a new project we often use some parts from the database, download models from vendors, and create our own models. During this process there are many parts that will never get used hence do not yet have part numbers assigned to them (model names) mixed with parts that are from the database. When I go home for the night I would like to be able to save my work. How do I do this when I don't have model names yet? How do I save out Work In Progress when it is a mixed bag of data?

Hi Calvin,

As far as saving things out at night, or when making changes to objects that you might not want to keep, I believe that our AI QSave Package could be just what you're looking for: In a nutshell, AI QSave Package allows you to save selected objects into package files with date-coded, revisioned names using just a couple of clicks.

Since your company already has licenses for this module, it might be worth taking a look...

andy